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Introducing New Glider...Help!
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Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: josefine] #1005396
09/16/10 01:19 PM
09/16/10 01:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
I have been feeding mine dog kibble for quite some time as a hard food in their cages with no ill effects.

I have heard that the ash in cat food could be an issue for the digestion in cats, but once again, we have no solid evidence of this, so it is all just hearsay.

Josefine, if you dont mind me asking, where have you learned that cat food isnt harmful and good for them? Is it through blood work done on your gliders, or someone elses blood work?


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: jacknsally] #1005407
09/16/10 01:30 PM
09/16/10 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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Guerita135  Offline
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Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Why does it have to be kibble to help with teeth? Wouldn't the other hard things they chew on give benefit as well? All mind chew on toys, tree branches, yogies are not rock hard but they are harder than their food, opening nut shells & I'm sure there are other things they chew on.


I don't give mine kibble for their teeth(that's just a plus). I give it to them as a snack to munch on til I get home from work to feed them.

For their teeth, I give mine branches to chew on. I have a Corkscrew Willow tree in my front yard, so I just chop off branches from there to give them. wink I live out in the country and never spray any pesticides or anything, so I just have to wash and sanitize them to get rid of any buggies and they're good to go!


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005422
09/16/10 01:49 PM
09/16/10 01:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
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Posts: 1,269
WI
We had some problems with gliders being food aggressive. So we were recommended to try Happy Glider. The same night we put it in their cages everyone STOPPED bickering! It was amazing! We loved it so much we now vend it. It's on our website if anyone is interested. smile

We do not recommend it as a main food source, but we offer it in their cages along with the Blended diet and fruit and veggies. They eat what they want of the dry food and still finish their main diet. It's nice to have in there in case someone doesn't get to eat as much as they wanted, or if we are late feeding- they have something to snack on and don't take their frustrations out on each other.

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 09/16/10 01:49 PM.

Allie
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005444
09/16/10 03:01 PM
09/16/10 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave
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Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
thanks for the link Kristy!

(I've still got to catch up on the posts after that though)


~~~ Crystal ~~~

Dot Dot heart Woobie heart Isabella heart Beetlejuice

heart Blitzy&Ella ~ Twinkie&Tiramisu ~ Dolly&Doobie

heart Taaska & Sadie ~ Teddy Bear Doodle & Sasha

heart Tiki, MoJo, Ruckus, Napoleon
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005451
09/16/10 03:18 PM
09/16/10 03:18 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,997
Upstate, SC
SariYappa Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Posts: 5,997
Upstate, SC
So, does anyone know what the kibble is that Poket pets sells? Do they divulge the ingredients? Just curious...


*Whatever I said, I said it with a Smile*

wave Sari

:grey:Sugar:grey:Nibbles:grey:Destiny

Rapid Runner *Sold Out!

Suggie Smart Mart *Home of The Hippie Pouch & Suggie Chandelier
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005454
09/16/10 03:21 PM
09/16/10 03:21 PM

P
Peeka02
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Peeka02
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This is where it gets really confusing for new owners or soon to be owners. We are told from early on in on our research that pellets are a no no. However come to find out that alot of owners actually do offer pellets after all. Where do these pellets factor in with the list of approved diets. I know some just feed it as a treat but some leave pellets out for their suggies to munch on during the day. Does this not disrupt ratios etc

I was not planning on giving mine pellets because it has been ingrained into my head that they are bad. I thought I had everything sorted out in my head in terms of diets but now I'm all confused again.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005476
09/16/10 03:50 PM
09/16/10 03:50 PM

L
LindsaysSuggies
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LindsaysSuggies
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I give mine BML and Happy Glider because thats what a man told me to do where I bought my first glider. Happy Glider as a type of treat.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: ] #1005521
09/16/10 06:08 PM
09/16/10 06:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Peeka02
This is where it gets really confusing for new owners or soon to be owners. We are told from early on in on our research that pellets are a no no. However come to find out that alot of owners actually do offer pellets after all. Where do these pellets factor in with the list of approved diets. I know some just feed it as a treat but some leave pellets out for their suggies to munch on during the day. Does this not disrupt ratios etc

I was not planning on giving mine pellets because it has been ingrained into my head that they are bad. I thought I had everything sorted out in my head in terms of diets but now I'm all confused again.


Very good point. But keep in mind, that we are learning new things everyday about sugar gliders. What was thought to be good/bad 5 years ago, may be proven the opposite today. Learning never stops! smile

I'm not saying I agree with the pellets though - still thinking that one through. But as far as the diets, I'm a firm believer that they should be fed as written. Giving the pellet as a treat wouldn't be so bad, but I think that leaving it in the cage would/could throw the ratios off some.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005522
09/16/10 06:24 PM
09/16/10 06:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Peeka02, the SunCoast diet was designed around a pellet fed to exotic omnivores in many zoos around the world, so this is an example of a diet with a high quality animal protein-based pellet integrated:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-45.htm#menu

You'll notice that other than the pellets, it looks much like many of the homemade diets. Lisa has been using this diet for 11 years.

I think pellets in general having a bad name goes back to the "cat food" days, when many fed cat food kibble to gliders. This was found to be an unacceptable primary food for gliders by the exotic vet community and that's when the homemade diets started with BML, pellets were declared "bad", and people using them "uninformed".

But since then, omnivore and then glider-specific pellets have been developed, along with lots of homemade diets, and also many companies offering pellets with dubious nutritional value as far as gliders go. So you get some feeding zoo-grade pellets as a main part of the nutritional routine, some feeding these or other kinds of pellets as snacks with the homemade diets, and still others who continue to believe "all pellets are bad".

There is a list comparing the ingredients of different pellet foods here:

http://www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/Pellet%20Food%20Analysis%20-%20Quick%20View.pdf

Personally, when people mention pellets on this board, instead of everybody crucifying them, I wish the first reaction would instead be to ask "what brand"? Then the conversation can go in a more productive direction.

Anyway, if the majority of vets with exotic animal experience are suggesting a high quality pellet should be incorporated into the diet, it must not be an "uninformed" idea. You can read more about why they think this way in our latest newsletter:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-102.htm#dayfood2

We have asked for feedback from the vet community on this. So far, we have only received emails in support of high quality pellets as part of the diet, but if we hear any differently, we will report on it in the next newsletter.

PS We don't think people who feed homemade diets only are uninformed, they're making a personal choice, provided they know of all the options available. There's lots of reasons why people may prefer this approach.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005526
09/16/10 06:49 PM
09/16/10 06:49 PM

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Peeka02
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Peeka02
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Oooo Thank you that was an interesting read.
I don't want to derail this thread too much as it was originally about pellet food and lumpy jaw I see now that all pellet foods are not created equal.

I think I was getting confused as some people are feeding the homemade diets along with pellets in the day time. I had thought it was a cut and dry homemade diets OR pellet food kind of deal.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005530
09/16/10 07:23 PM
09/16/10 07:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Sure, and here's one reason you see mixing.

If you could leave the homemade food out all day without it spoiling, that would be one thing. But in many cases the mixes spoil relatively quickly at room temp so you need something in the cage that will not spoil, and that's one reason you see people who primarily feed a BML or similar also leave out pellets during the day.

But, not all gliders feed during the day. Gliders most likely to feed during the day are young gliders, breeding females, gliders who are not feeling well, and mature gliders.

Some people claim their gliders *never* come out during the day, and that can be true, we see maybe 10%. The question is, if there is no food during the day, how do you know they do not come out *because* they know there's no food?

That's why Lisa encourages people to try putting out some food during the day. If you have high quality cat or dog kibble, you can try that for a few days just to see what happens, but we don't suggest it as part of the diet.

But again, some people have no problem with that approach, especially if they have high confidence in the quality of the dog or cat food. We're more in the "cat food is for cats, dog food is for dogs" camp, but it's not going to hurt them for a couple days to see how they behave.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005571
09/16/10 08:13 PM
09/16/10 08:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
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Trigger  Offline
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Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
OK, out on the preverbial limb I go.

Newbs and oldtymers alike, diet is pretty much COMMON SENSE. We don't have a resident animal nutrition expert who has decided to devote their lifes money and work to figuring the perfect glider diet.

Some feed a common "tried and true" diet some feed chicken nuggets and happy meals diet. I personally have known both and BOTH HAD WHAT APPEAR to be happy, healthy monkeys.

I do NOT feed a "recognized" diet. I feed what I wish and buy. I do look at protien, fruits, vegis and pay attention to phos/cal ratios.

I also feed treats, some just to please my babies, some to serve a purpose be it cleaning teeth or enrichment. I also choose what these are and limit them as I see fit.

The gliders in my home are MINE, I love them ABOVE anyone else's care or concern & I alone will make choices regarding every aspect of their care.

Use your head, research what you can on their needs, both nutritionally and concerning enrichment and make the choices that work best for your gliders and you...IN THAT ORDER


-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005578
09/16/10 08:31 PM
09/16/10 08:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
And before someone asks me NO my monkeys don't get happy meals... until they learn circus tricks, get a JOB, learn to drive and can go buy their own JUNK food.
I believe in healthy eating for the humans and the monkeys, so as long as I buy the grub in this house it is lean, low fat, healthy stuff for all.


-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005604
09/16/10 09:57 PM
09/16/10 09:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
Ontario, Canada
scraptilldawn Offline
Glider Guardian
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
Ontario, Canada
I was quite pleased to see the Pellet Food Analysis found here http://www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/Pellet%20Food%20Analysis%20-%20Quick%20View.pdf and wondered this..... of all the pellet foods listed wouldn't you want to be feeding one that has the best ingredients? Other then the Insect Eater diet by Exotic Nutrition, they all seem to have wheat, soy or some type of grains as their main ingredients. Chicken Meat, Blood Meal, whole eggs, apple, pear sound like great ingredients to me (I've never fed the Insect Eater before) and something I might be willing to use.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005644
09/16/10 10:50 PM
09/16/10 10:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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jimbo  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
scraptilldawn, both the pellet foods Suncoast sells have animal protein as the main ingredient (Chicken or Pork), so Insect Eater is not the only one, but we agree that the nutritional profile of Insect Eater is what we like to see.

Insect Eater does have to be replaced every 24 hours (as does the moist pork-based product we sell) which is why we developed Wholesome Balance - people just find it easier to deal with / less waste. But "dry" does mean a different kind of composition to avoid refrigeration / spoiling and some folks may prefer the approach taken with Insect Eater.

We have no problem with that at all.

Like Trigger said, use your head and "make the choices that work best for your gliders and you...IN THAT ORDER".

Perfect.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005648
09/16/10 10:58 PM
09/16/10 10:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
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S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I have always left a pellet diet in my cages. Pellets were part of their regular diet for the first couple of years that I had them. Since then, I leave pellets in their cage in case I am late with feeding or they start eating more and I don't notice right away (I have hoarders and the pellets have helped stave it off).


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005657
09/16/10 11:19 PM
09/16/10 11:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Yes, food hoarding is a complex situation but if you have animals that seem to be afraid of accessing the fresh food or prevented in some way from enjoying all the fresh food they would like the pellets help ensure even nutritional value delivery. Pecking orders are natural and rather than trying to "enforce" some kind of feeding ritual, alternative food sources help provide equal access to all the animals.

Speaking of natural, does anyone know of any warm-blooded animals that prefer to eat only once a day in their natural habitat if they have access to food throughout the day?


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: jimbo] #1005667
09/16/10 11:39 PM
09/16/10 11:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Originally Posted By: jimbo
Speaking of natural, does anyone know of any warm-blooded animals that prefer to eat only once a day in their natural habitat if they have access to food throughout the day?


Strictly nocturnal animals?

Bats, hamsters, owls etc....They do not graze all day, even if it were offered because they are asleep during the day. smile

But they have access all night. Which is generally something my suggies do anyway. They don't eat it all at one time, instead they graze throughout the night- just like their wild counterparts do. Or similar at least. Many mornings I get up to see them still finishing off dinner around 6 a.m.

We have quite a few gliders. NONE of them get up during the day.

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 09/17/10 03:04 AM.

Allie
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005725
09/17/10 02:56 AM
09/17/10 02:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I have seen videos of wild gliders taken during the day on the internet. And 2 friends of mine just came back from Australia and they said you do see them in the trees during the day, must mostly at night.

Of my 4 gliders, 2 wont get up for anything during the day, the other 2 are quite happy to get up to play, snack, cuddle.

perhaps it is very individual?

As for the pellet discussion here (loving it by the way!)

I do use pellets, 2 types, alternating them.

Also use high quality catfood as treat.

My question is this and please dont anyone take this the wrong way: with every diet out there, whether there are pellets included or not, there is always some supplementation.

when using a supplement there is a risk to OVER or UNDER supplement.

I would like to see a pellet diet that could be fed without any supplements. That is and of itself a "perfect" nutritional diet. With that being said, I would still feed fruits and veggies with such a pellet, and that would be a way to "treat" and "enrich".


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005800
09/17/10 10:02 AM
09/17/10 10:02 AM

J
Jd1987
Unregistered
Jd1987
Unregistered
J



hmmmm i dont think the pellet i use is on this list. does have a 2:1 Ca to P ratio an similar % of fat ect to the insect eater. Smells good nothing in it that is bad for them i checked as best i could. ill post what I have to since its in a wide array of pet stores atround here

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1005863
09/17/10 12:49 PM
09/17/10 12:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio
C
CharmedSuggies Offline
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CharmedSuggies  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio


I was looking at this comparison chart & it's not complete. The Ca:Ph ratio's on the first page is not complete & the second page does not list everything including Ca:Ph.

It's hard to compare the different pellets (as many as there are) w/o full info on them all to compare.


Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006019
09/17/10 06:01 PM
09/17/10 06:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Out of curiosity, to my knowledge (which I admit is limited), there has not been any research conducted on the daily nutritional needs of a sugar glider.

So, if there is no such research, how do we know that these pellets (and the recognized diets too, but that's another topic) are truly "good" for them? Not too much protein, vitamins, etc.

And, if there HAS been research done, I would love for someone to share that with me. wink

I'm not trying to discourage the use of pellets, just trying to understand it more. First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.

Great topic!


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006026
09/17/10 06:16 PM
09/17/10 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio
C
CharmedSuggies Offline
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CharmedSuggies  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.


I agree completely. If there has been research and tests done, I would also like to know about it. when I fist started on GC I was tol NO pellets unless it was part of the diet like with the pet glider diet.


Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: CharmedSuggies] #1006031
09/17/10 06:30 PM
09/17/10 06:30 PM

P
Peeka02
Unregistered
Peeka02
Unregistered
P



Originally Posted By: CharmedSuggies
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.


I agree completely. If there has been research and tests done, I would also like to know about it. when I fist started on GC I was tol NO pellets unless it was part of the diet like with the pet glider diet.


Yup. I don't find the diets common sense. I would like to think I have a little of it and diets were the most complicated thing for me to understand when first doing my research, that's why there is so much debate. This has been one of my favorite threads to date! it has been extremely informative. thumb

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006042
09/17/10 06:55 PM
09/17/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave
DirtyPaws  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
Okay, checked out PetPro's website and read the ingredients for the different Happy Glider formulas. I didn't read much past 'animal plasma' and 'corn gluten meal.'

What were the other dry glider kibble to choose from? I know I'd only be giving mine as a snack but would like them to have a crunchy bite at least every other morning to help with their teeth. I'm just not crazy about corn anything ~ especially gluten. (Although, I do give frozen corn as a snack only 3-4 times a year.)

At this point I think I'm on board with those giving high quality dog food as snacks. Holistic formulas, with low grains and no fillers or by-products.


~~~ Crystal ~~~

Dot Dot heart Woobie heart Isabella heart Beetlejuice

heart Blitzy&Ella ~ Twinkie&Tiramisu ~ Dolly&Doobie

heart Taaska & Sadie ~ Teddy Bear Doodle & Sasha

heart Tiki, MoJo, Ruckus, Napoleon
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006053
09/17/10 07:56 PM
09/17/10 07:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio
C
CharmedSuggies Offline
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CharmedSuggies  Offline
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C

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,273
Dayton, Ohio
Here are some of the ingredients.

Exotic Nutrition Complete
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.

Happy Glider Chicken Protein
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.

Happy Glider Supreme
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.

Glider Chow
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.


Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: GliderNursery] #1006069
09/17/10 08:29 PM
09/17/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
there has not been any research conducted on the daily nutritional needs of a sugar glider.


To my knowledge there has yet to be a research done.

I don't know of anyone that has collected gliders and dissected their bellies and intestines to see what exactly they eat, how much of it, checked their blood to see what the *wild life* gliders counts are etc...

And if this has been done, how can we be assured that it was done on healthy gliders in the wild?

Quote:
So, if there is no such research, how do we know that these pellets (and the recognized diets too, but that's another topic) are truly "good" for them? Not too much protein, vitamins, etc.


The more reading I do on gliders, the more it seems as though they eat more plant protein year round than bug/animal protein.

I guess the only way to know with pellets would be the same way we know with any other diet we feed.

Lets be real, we dont know the answers except for the research and studies and information that we have collected over the years, be it from blood panels, surgeries or a necropsy, histopath etc.

Quote:
First they weren't good, now we see a lot of people offering them for various reasons.


They werent good just like a lot of other things we believed as not being good...such as soy...yet look at how the gliders on HPW strive today. (well that is some pretty poor grammar for the evening!! LOL)

Do I think there is a pellet out there today that is good enough to be a *main* part of a diet? Nope.But then again, I havent really looked into them that much and could I be proven wrong and change my mind tomorrow or the next day? Yep.

I think we are all realizing that we need to really look into things before just taking someones words for it.

Just like the sticky on Soy. Often I will get an pm or email asking me if I wrote that article on how dangerous Soy is for Gliders, than why do I encourage folks to feed a diet that has Soy as the main ingredient? I have to go through the whole thing on how *I* did not write that post and how it came about to where it looks like I did (housekeeping in my Mod days) but honestly, a lot of those stickies are out of date and need to be replaced with current information.

Every day we all learn something new. It amazes me to see just how many people DO leave pellets in their cages for their gliders, just in case, they wake up. It makes me happier to see that folks now a days are willing to say YES I do and not have to worry about getting jumped on, as they would have say a couple years ago (and probably by me!!).

We just need to continue having these kind of discussions to find out what does and does not work for our gliders.

What I would like to find is someone who feeds a pellet diet and have them have a blood panel drawn...wonder what that would say??


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006089
09/17/10 09:06 PM
09/17/10 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
Joey Member
jimbo  Offline
Joey Member
J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
There was a limited study done, in fact as a direct result of efforts here at GC. Rather than rehash it here (there is a lot of disagreement on results / validity, surprise!), see this topic:

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/990743/Re_More_Diet_Questions_SunCoas

A link to the actual study is about 4 posts down; a quick summary of the 3 page discussion would be something like "this community is not going to accept the results of a study unless it is conducted across many different habitats, for many generations, comparing all diets".

So, let's accept that the kind of study people would like to see as proof is unrealistic until a major pet food manufacturer enters the sugar glider food market.

Then, what is the next level of "trust" people will accept?

Here are the best options I know of:

There are vets who specialize in exotic animals who have experience with and access to research on a wide variety of exotic animals, go to conferences, understand the latest best practices. Certainly, they understand what KIND of animal a sugar glider is, the general physiological profile of a sugar glider, and what likely nutritional scenarios are from field studies and different professional keepers.

There are professionals who have spent their entire careers in animal nutrition, who work at zoos or similar habitats and are responsible for the health of the animals.

There are manufacturers with decades of experience formulating and packaging glider and other exotic animal foods, which are used by the professionals in the zoos and similar habitats above, whose reputations and business success are affected by the feeding outcomes and opinions of the zoo professionals.

So, I agree, it would be great to have glider-specific research that proves things one way or another. But at the same time I think as a general idea, saying "we don't have any hard proof of anything so we should ignore the opinions of the above professionals until we do" is an unusual way to view the diet issue.

To me, this does not pass the "common sense" test, and instead one should look for the "next best thing". There are 3 choices above, and in my opinion, any one or more of them is probably better than waiting for the definitive study that may not happen in our lifetimes (I'm 52, adjust for your own expectations wink.

Then of course you have breeders who have been using different kinds of diets, some created by professionals, some not, for various lengths of time, some not very long, some up to over a decade. And lots of claims surrounding them, especially "we don't know so until we do it's OK".

I agree completely diet is a personal choice, and people should not be made to feel bad about choosing an approach that is within the generally accepted guidelines and fits their lifestyle.

But at the same time to reject out of hand all pellets as "bad", especially when all 3 groups above agree using a high quality, animal-specific pellet is a best practice when feeding exotics, seems to break the community's own desire to be "scientific" about diet.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: Srlb] #1006092
09/17/10 09:11 PM
09/17/10 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline
Glider Addict
josefine  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
i don't feed mine pellets as a meal, i feed them candy's blended, w/fruits & veggies. i just put small amts of kibble for them to munch on, if they get up, & if they even want some to eat.
after reading the nutritional value to Natural Value ultra cat food, & listening to some of the owners in Florida(SESG) feeding this(when the furbabies weren't playing throw ball w/it),along w/a 'green jungle juice' someone devised w/a green machine health drink, i went ahead & started adding that to their meals,along w/the food, not in place of it.
my girls were eating only enough to maintain their weight, nothing more, & i was throwing so much out. i got desperate, & started adding more to the meals. but then i was also throwing away what i was giving them. they barely ate for 6 months & i was ready to be put away somewhere, b/c whatever i tried would not work.
now, they still don't eat much of their meals each nite, but they are enjoying candy's blended diet(as long as i feed it all alone, & not have something else mixed in w/it.)
glider gossip also has many good, nutritious meals on their site, but my girls still wouldn't eat any of it. frown frown
pellets could be harmful if they are mainly junk, or also they could get lodged in anal glands,too. but, in the wild, they are 'eating' bark & the like out there to,i think anyway.


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: Pelleted food?? [Re: josefine] #1006102
09/17/10 09:29 PM
09/17/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,798
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
But at the same time to reject out of hand all pellets as "bad", especially when all 3 groups above agree using a high quality, animal-specific pellet is a best practice when feeding exotics, seems to break the community's own desire to be "scientific" about diet.


Jimbo, although I agree with some of what you stated, I *think* the mentality that most glider owners have went by for so many years, is although yes they ARE *exotics* most exotic animals are NOT sap suckers like Sugar Gliders are. Most eat more of a carnivorous food then Sugar Gliders do.

I know when I first came on board as an owner it was constantly thrown at me how gliders are Sap Suckers...they dont swallow all their food, they just get the *juices* out and spit the rest out...

So now that folks are saying, hey, my glider does eat pelleted foods and they do ok, it is hard for some to grasp onto, since it goes against all we have been taught over the years.

Just like several folks dont know that gliders actually have 40 teeth in their mouths... yea, plenty of them to chew stuff with, even if its a pellet...

When it would be brought up that gliders chewed bark on trees to get to the sap, the come back would be, yes but the bark on those trees are soft bark...again, it may be soft bark, but the gliders actually had to make a HOLE in a tree to get to the sap, not just peel away the top layer of bark...

Its nice to see that we ARE learning, we are evolving, we are realizing that our gliders arent as fragile as we once thought.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

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